thanks snowdrop, I recon thats whats going to happen sooner or later....hopefully sooner. Shes not a trained florist, in a shop or college, I have no idea how she has got away with it this far but I am confident that sometime soon either the FD will come to his senses or she'll cock up badly, which would be awful for the family but I am confident I'll be able to dig him out of a hole when he needs me......it wouldnt be a first for him to give me 10 minutes notice for a coffin spray