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Ophelia Coquenbalzac · #21 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 12:27 PM

My comment was a joke that I thought Oov would would find amusing.

Everything has to result in an arguement one here, chill out a bit, lifes too short for all the stressing you lot do.

You know if you're intelligent or not who cares what anyone else thinks.

Pidge · #22 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 12:27 PM

This is a very difficult arguement. On the one hand there is the point made by Oovavoo that children are a blank canvas and it is parental/society influence that moulds them ........ and I agree with that.

On the other hand as Miss Bookay has said these two lads were nearly 11 years old when they enticed Jamie (a two year old boy) from his Mother and then performed absolutely vile and distgusting acts on him and then leaving him to die a slow and painful death. These two lads KNEW what they were doing and faced the consequences. Should they have been released back into Society.......... a difficult one to call. To be given anonimity (sp) and the chance to start a new life blemish free is what people find the hardest to take given the crime they committed.

Now one has re-offended and has been sent back to prison. They knew what the consequences would be if they did something to break their parole and so it has.

Is it right for Society to mollycoddle these lads through their lives for doing something as evil as they did without punishment? I think not.

Carmel Tow · #23 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Bookay..

I know kids that have had horrendous upbringings who have turned out to be the salt of the earth and those that have had fantastic upbringings who are the scum of the earth.. at the end of the day parents and peers can advice (or not) and they can mould but they can never change who were are and no amount of wonderful parenting or great advice from peers can stop someone from being the way they are.. and sadly regardless of what happened around them in their upbringing both Venables and Thompson were old enough to know exactly what they were doing and to be responsible for their actions.. My 7 year old nephew understands the difference between right and wrong and that nobody has the right to hurt another human (be it a child or adult) so at 10 years old both of them would have done too..

They hadn't turned out to be anything yet... they were still CHILDREN, they didn't have the moral code of an adult as they weren't adults. They are legally children until the age of 18, a child is a person who has not attained maturity, one who is childish, immature... should we judge someone for the rest of their lives on something they did when they were children?
Your nephew is very lucky indeed to have been taught the difference between right and wrong in a loving enviroment.. however by your own statement, one day, he may become the scum of the earth after a fantastic upbringing... if that happened, would you want to give up on him, lock him up and throw away the key or try to help him??

Carmel Tow · #24 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophelia Coquenbalzac

My comment was a joke that I thought Oov would would find amusing.

Everything has to result in an arguement one here, chill out a bit, lifes too short for all the stressing you lot do.

You know if you're intelligent or not who cares what anyone else thinks.

I did, I do, I am!

Madam Mardy · #25 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOVAAVOO

Whilst I don't condone what those two boys did to little Jamie and couldn't imagine the pain and hurt his parents had to and still go through, I find the general publics witch hunt against Venables and Thompson ignorant and I think most people are happy to jump on the "leave them to rot" bandwagon. I firmly believe children are a blank canvas when they are born, the enviroment they are surrounded by as they grow up moulds them into the adults they become.
They did not set out that day with the intent to murder, it's easier for people to think they're evil.. easier then the possibility that they were just two mixed up CHILDREN let down by society who took a game too far. Why do we find a child who murders another child so particularly heinous, are they truly evil? Are they worse than an adult child killer? It's a difficult thought that a child who is meant to be innocent and pure could do something so terrible, it would be easier to write them off and "leave them to rot" then face the truth that it is OUR fault these children become what they become.
They were failed as children and now one of them has reoffended.. they have been failed as adults.. failed by a rehabilatation system that hasn't worked. Venables broke a rule (which COULD be something as small as a parking ticket), he's grown up in an institutionalised atmosphere, maybe he did it on purpose, maybe he found living in the real world too difficult.
What would locking them up and forgetting about them make us as a society?? Don't we owe everyone a chance and some help- to turn their lives around?

they did set out that day with the intent of taking a child...they had planned what they wanted to do and how they were going to achieve it. It was not a spur of the moment decision, they lured him away from his mother with premeditated intent.

Miss Bookay.. · #26 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 01:05 PM

If he did something wrong then regardless of how much I love him I would want to see him punished.. How would he learn and set an example to others if he got away with it? And yes the law does state that children are just that up to the age of 18 but that doesn't mean they can't be held accountable for their actions..

At the end of the day I'm not going to get into an argument with anybody over anything.. I've voiced an opinion that is neither right nor wrong.. It is just an opinion and I have said that I can see where you are coming from with your views.. I understand exactly what you are saying and am not dissing you in any way for it.. I just happen to think differently

ladymoll · #27 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 01:18 PM

psychopaths are born with their wiring dysfunctional....a child or adult cannot be made into a monster they just are

Ophelia Coquenbalzac · #28 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladymoll

psychopaths are born with their wiring dysfunctional....a child or adult cannot be made into a monster they just are

This is something we will never really know the answer to.

I do think the environment people are brought up in plays a very strong part in how they behave as children and adults, there are always exceptions to every rule but we've all got a rough estate somewhere near us (if you haven't you're either rich and live well away from these people or you are one of these people and you just don't know it

) anyway why do people on these estates act in a generally more anti social way? the answer is simple - social conditioning, which is exactly what Oov was talking about.

Mary D'Acampo J · #29 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 05:36 PM

I have no wish to get into a row but in fact venables stated in his police interview that he and thompson were at Bootle strand looking for a child to take outside and "push in front of a car" an act that would have undoubtedly resulted in death for such a small child.

The boys "bottled out" of doing this to james, though it was discussed, but in an act of further premeditation they led him 2 miles to an area they were familiar with to kill him, which they did.

These two boys did not acidently kill james, it wasn't a game that went too far it was murder, savage, premeditated murder for which 8 years in a youth offenders institution and a new identity is, quite frankly sucks.

Carmel Tow · #30 (**permalink**) 05-03-2010, 05:43 PM

Can it be murder if they didn't understand the consequences or even the enormity of their actions? As I see it yes they did plan to take a child and push it in front of a car, but not to kill, in their words-to cause an accident.

If an adult with the mental age ten year old killed, would you call that murder??

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And so he should be

And so he should be